New Christie large venue

[w.mayer]

Sad no one continue this interesting thread here where are people reading that can buy it and may like to buy it.
I think the other forum was the wrong forum for such kind of technology.

[donaldk]

Wolfgang, I agree. I asked Nigel befor he went to Canada, if he would also post his findings here. He has not done so, and I did not want to upset him by simply copying his report here.

[Peter CINERAMAX]

Why would he mind?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3018138-christie-large-venue-demonstration-5.html#post57023378

[Art Sonneborn]

Wolfgang, I agree. I asked Nigel befor he went to Canada, if he would also post his findings here. He has not done so, and I did not want to upset him by simply copying his report here.
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Wolfgang you are right all around, I started the thread on the other forum simply because of the traffic there. There are a few people there who can afford this projector and are willing to comment..

Also there are people there who know quite a bit about cinema projection who add their two cents. Even with that it isn't killing it with traffic even there.

[w.mayer]

Hi Art

yes there is more traffic but from people that cannot afford this pr. and people that often just talk about senseless things like why this pr. is so expensive and many other things I and other don’t like to read.

But as it was a technically interesting development I watch since day one when Zeiss Germany develops the first Velvet Pr. I get in contact with the one guy that develops it.
Many years later this technology was further improved and ends at the Dolby Vision Pr. that Christie did.
So it will be a logically step to bring this technology to the high end consumer base even if most that wish to get this pr. cannot afford it as it will be super expensive when Christie
do this Projector with Laser as a light source!

Why they are not coming with a Xenon Based Version that can be more than half as expensive compare to laser!!!
In the original Dolby Vision Projector that had in every of the two Projectors only 3P Laser inside.
They need this to do perfect 3D.
When you are running 3D with one Projector with Shutter glasses there is no need for Laser and xenon as you know can do 100% DCI Color and even more!

So coming with a 15.000 Laser compare to a 15.000 lumen Xenon will made a huge huge price difference!!!
Likely with Laser Christie can sale a good handful Pr. but with Xenon they have to add a 0 for the sales possible a double 00 as the Pr. then will get in a price range that more than a handful people can afford.

[donaldk]

Why would he mind?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3018138-christie-large-venue-demonstration-5.html#post57023378
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Copying his stuff here, I meant. Linking is okay. He posted something about not posting here anymore, remember. So, then taking his content and re-publishing it, is not something I do.

Thanks for posting the link. Hopefully this projector will make it to Amsterdam for ISE.

[donaldk]

Wolfgang the days of high pressure lamps are numbered. Even the Velvet is moving to LED. The laser platform is something Christie has on the shelf. I am sure Christie has a story about TCO.

It also depends on the target market, consider an owner of a CAVE, that needs to keep all walls the same, brightness, color, contrast, he would argue the opposite, LASER is cheaper. Secondly why are the modules only half the output of the regular LASER Projectors' output rating? Is this due to lower output into the fiber, or is it the same light energy into the projector with the projector eating the other half? In that case the the reason for LASER is clear.

Infitec worked on Mercury and Xenon lamps as well. Dolby offers 3D Cinema on Xenon as well doesn't it, so why was 2x3P LASER an absolute requirement? Only for the required Brightness, I thought.

[w.mayer]

Well we all know why Niggl left this forum.

I do not agree with your last post Donald.

Laser is a big HYPE where laser is better than xenon lamps?

I had in the last 10 years 7 xenon lamp Pr. one laser phosphor the Sony VW5000 and one direct laser the Barco Thor.
I know so far 4 advantages that real laser (not laser phosphor) have and they are:
-very long lifetime about 20 times a xenon lamp
-no flicker
-good to use for a perfect 3d system
-in special setup full 100% rec 2020 color possible

That are all advantages but look into xenon again and compare.
I have in the last year’s most a running time from around 200 to 300 hours and this contains movies TV and Sport
and project 3D images.
So I can have a xenon lamp for many years before I need to change so no problem to use xenon.

Also I did not complain about flicker that xenon lamps can show sometimes.
There are some tricks how to run a xenon lamp that it will be show less flicker and this flicker is not visible for me or say it better it will be at a level that I not notice it.

3D well this new Christie had not the 6P 3D system so you have to use shutter for 3D anyway so then it is not an issue.

Rec 2020 colors well there is not any source material there and not will be anytime soon and DCI color is easy with xenon lamps possible.
Xenon lamps are also not show a color shift over the live time.

But the important and  big advantage from the xenon lamp is the price!
I bet that as I had post already  that a Pr. in the 15.000 lumen range with the Christie infinity cr. technology can be half as expensive with a xenon and I cannot see any big disadvantage that count.
Yes many manufacture like to push us in the direction but did we need to follow when 98% of the lamp quality a cheap xenon lamp do it?
But I have own since many years of both Laser and Xenon Projectors so I know what I say.
Most people just hear about it as they not have this 2 kind of lamp technology side by side in their home and can compare!

There can be a issue that with xenon lamp as possible they can not offer this insane high on off cr. but from what I know is that it will be may only drop by 30% and this makes not any differences at this high on off cr. this unit likely have.
BTW about the measured contrast ratio.
I strongly doubt that the Christie Pr. had the 21.500.000:1 cr. that was measured and publish in a other forum.
I do not like to downgrade the cr. as I am in person like to buy this units and I am sure it will looks as infinity black very nice but not with this high number.
I think it will be in the almost 1.000.000:1 range but not more.
But this made "not any difference" as it will be a black level that so far not any other technology in pr. can show.

JVC they know this all and comes with their brand new 4K Pr. line up with only UHD lamps!
Why?
Sony that had their top unit with laser very expensive compare to a less expensive JVC UHD lamp based top unit and this is one responsible issue why people will get the JVC beside some other advantages that JVC maybe have.

But coming back to the Christie here the simple question will be can the customer afford it yes or no.
I bet that only a handful people in the world can afford a laser based system but at least 30 time more a xenon lamp based unit.
If I owns Christie there will be not any question that I will come first with a xenon lamp based cheap model and may be later with a laser version.
But this companies have often their own agenda.

[Peter CINERAMAX]

Well we all know why Niggl left this forum.

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He could not handle the truth about Steinway Lygdorf that he shoved down Samsung The Walls division. We subsequently discussed the matter in San Diego and are now friends again.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-poulain-426680/

So I had Andrew Poulain who not only launched Atmos to the World but his career skyrocketed to Worldwide Director Of Dolby Cinema, the most important executive in the world of immersion, spend 7 hours here testing the different approach from Steinway Lygdorf and the one that I have been developing now for a long time.

The reason I criticized the Steinway Lyngdorf was presented to him and both him and the director of Samsung The Wall agreed that the completely different approach we are launching is what is needed next.

Nigel chose to leave over that. Because I felt he was doing the world a disservice in ONLY that regard, now I have the 2 top directors in the immersion world backing me up on a technical approach that is more spectacular by better tapping the collective unconscious.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-choi-samsung/

[Peter CINERAMAX]

Laser is a big HYPE where laser is better than xenon lamps?

I had in the last 10 years 7 xenon lamp Pr. one laser phosphor the Sony VW5000 and one direct laser the Barco Thor.
I know so far 4 advantages that real laser (not laser phosphor) have and they are:
-very long lifetime about 20 times a xenon lamp
-no flicker
-good to use for a perfect 3d system
-in special setup full 100% rec 2020 color possible

That are all advantages but look into xenon again and compare.
I have in the last year’s most a running time from around 200 to 300 hours and this contains movies TV and Sport
and project 3D images.
So I can have a xenon lamp for many years before I need to change so no problem to use xenon.

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I agree that xenon is a superior light source 100%, as it relates to this projector do not expect the color to look anything like xenon. When i saw this projector at NAB and thousands of post types saw it, many complained about metameric failure, the narrow waves of 3P for me are not a good faithful approximation of xenon color, with 2 projectors it is better.

It's too bad that the team of expert viewers that went to Toronto all have embraced blue laser phosphor as a valid high-end solution. Because next to it 3p is king. Just kidding Art.

So the Dolby Director asked me to go see the Torus room with a Barco 2k-20 series one (dark chip 2 with eotf and very aggressive Lens mod by A). The first thing he did was determine the position in the room where he can see the pixel structure, next to the front row, then he went up to the screen and asked me about the gain and then saw the little speckles on the screen. Then he sat down on the center row.

I told him that the screen created very good uniformity, first, he said not so much but he then say wait! im thinking of our projectors (which are now 6P single head- and can now be leased), this is xenon? yes it is excellent uniformity. I played allegiant uhd, he said im not familiar with the content but this is an excellent EDR image.

The RealD Ultimate screen acts as Torus in screen uniformity with 2.2 gain over a wide cone (130) with zero speckles, with a thor is the best 3d I have ever seen with 1,000-1 intereye contrast, and you can put a speaker behind it. Directional light is underrated.

I have seen the Christie first prototype, dolby vision units at Dolby, and also a THOR retrofitted with the light steering technology. The later was in a room with some signage, but the dynamic range was spectacular.

Your very valid point about xenon has made me realize that for me a more practical and economical version for HT is the DP4k-P fitted with the Light steering assembly. Xenon is the baby that has been thrown out with the bathwater.

Why does Chris Chinook not consider Dolby Cinema HDR but the barco thor with light-steering yes like LED cinema?



Missing ion the above list is very hc tone mapped Xenon edr projection, the one I upgraded the Torus room to in 2015. It kills every laser phosphor in overall presentation. Despite 7k to 1 on off.

So IU asked Andrew, how should I update this cinema, he is using the new small Christie compact laser for all the hollywood studio heads and is releasing this month an hdmi 2.0a upgrade to the ims-3000. But he admitted that the xenon picture looked great, so he is ok for me changing from 2k series one to series 2 2k and he will send me an IMS-3000 to test because the compact christie would require a change to egg white zero gain on the torus and then it would no longer be directional light. I find it very distracting seeing the walls on the side light up. Even on black rooms, you can see.

So we all agree xenon is very very good including this man that is GOD.

[w.mayer]

If there is a lot of redesign nessarcary to switch from laser to xenon lamps with this infinity cr. design this will be may to expensive to do.
But if it is possible Christie should consider this.

[Art Sonneborn]

Trust me isn't going to happen. After seeing what it took to get this unit performing to this astronomical standard they aren't going to go to the cooling and llfespan nightmare of a lamp. The laser modules are all individually cooled and are outboard from the head.  It wouldn't be a modification it would be ground up.

Art

[donaldk]

Pressure lamp into fiber... It has been done, but these vendors have long moved on. PD did this. Zeiss Velvet, well the simulation and training version is moving to LED.

[Peter CINERAMAX]

But 6p can be done on a single head like Dolby is doing recently, that should improve the appearance of xenon.

For Barco light steer a letter writing campaign can be started, highly doable since the optomechanics are on the front.

[donaldk]

Just feed in a LUX, and be done with it, Peter;-).