Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?

[w.mayer]

So Donaldk the first time this unit is with a consumer in the world after so many wait for a report and you ask this

I don't care  about this 2 SDI inputs as there is not any need for me but if someone need it its there he can feed 4K with it so far i know.

I will post a report about the outcome of this day may later today.

[donaldk]

Wolfgang you misunderstood what I said/tried to say, it is not about the SDI, but the HDMI. With no high bandwidth SDI, the new HDMI is required/crucial for feeding the Barco with 4K. As it is the only way of getting the 4K, with HDR and wide color, high bitdepth, to the projector. So very interesting to see how this long awaited/highly anticipated unit performs.

[w.mayer]

A smile on my face?

Yes but not because everything runs well today.

First it was easy to swap the Alchemy out just 4 screws open slide the old one out change the 3 hard drives to the new Alchemy and swap new Alchemy again inside close the 4 screws.
Then put new Software on the Barco for the new Alchemy done.

First the negative things.
3D BD are not working anymore right.
There was some synch problem between left and right in motion visible that the technician from Barco cannot solve today.
Also we cannot scale 2D and 3D BD and 4K UHD in the scope format from 3840 to 4096 by enlarge it horizontally AND vertically both at the same time that I can use my full screen.
It should be possible with a new Software release but not  know when.
2D BD was working fine but need a bit adjustments for Gamma and other Parameters.
Post Software had this adjustments but it was not working with the new Alchemy!
Gamma adjustment work with the Post Software so at least this I can adjust to the right level.

UHD works after I found some nice tools about HDR good.
It shows factory wise also a very very dim image but Barco was smart enough to listen to me about my since long time reported issue and the put a nice feature inside.
They have a section where you can select HDR and there you can put any number (nit) from I think 0 to 10.000 inside that makes the clipping point of HDR.
May it starts with 100 nit but I just short try 300 nit to 700 nit.
300 nit was a bit too bright with too much clipping for my taste.
500 nit looks near perfect.
Nice was the Sony UHD Disc when you display the hidden UHD Test pattern and they show clear  what number you put inside at the Barco this will be the clipping point.
So a bit similar to the HDR Slider Sony did with their 4K UHD Consumer pr.
I like how Barco did it as you can select whatever you like and adopt it to the individual screen size.
May some like more brightness they use 300 nit other like 500 nit or even more.
For my eyes with my screen size I like everything from 400-650 nit with the Barco as it give the best result.

Compare this 4K UHD HDR Rec. 2020 Picture with the picture I have since long time with the Lumagen Scaler und Stripper (the tricky way to feed 4K HDR to the old Alchemy) it’s hard to say what looks better.
I not see a big improvement it show a slightly other picture with more colors in some areas with a bit different color over all and less clipping in bright sequences.
I have to test more before I post the result.
BTW the OPPO not woks with my new Marantz Decoder together when you playback UHD Disc!
Not with 24P and also not with 4K 60P Version from the Billy Linn Movie we try as well.
So I have to feed the picture direct from Oppo to the Barco without any Marantz in-between!
Not good but cannot say what cause it.
Was it the Oppo UHD Player the reason or the Marantz but this HDMI hand shack problems gets worse and worse................

Most exiting today was that I was able to see for the first time Billy Lynns Long Haftime Walk in UHD 4K HDR Rec. 2020  with the world first 60P Disc and it looks like real!
Very good I like it a lot even if you need to adopt to 60P coming from 24P since long time is hard but when you get used to 60P there is no way back to 24P.
It will be even better some day when Oppo have their sharpness enhancement ready as at the moment this feature is not there.

So all over a mix day for me as it was pity that 3D BD not work right so I cannot use the new Alchemy at the moment.

I hope for a fast solution about my 3D BD issue and the 3840 to 4096 scale for scope movies and the issue that adjustment’s from Post Software can be not made for
Saturation Brightness Contrast and Hue then I can go and use the new Alchemy and test it in many other ways.

[w.mayer]

I got surprisingly a mail today from Barco Development saying that the have a new Software for me that may solve the 3D BD Playback issues I report in my last post.

So I swap the old Alchemy out that was inside put the new one inside change the 3 hard drives and Barco help me to put that new Software on.

Wow 3D Bug is gone!

What a nice surprise.

I have hear in the past that Barco is a big slow elephant but this time it was like a big fast Tiger .
Just 2 days it need to solve my major 3D problem very nice thank you Barco.

The bad thing about it now I like this kind of fast bug solving every time 

They told me that they need some weeks for the other things to solve but this gives me now the possibilty that I will use this new Alchemy and test it with all UHD 4K HDR Rec. 2020 color disc I have include the first 4K 60P movie and Sky 4K broadcast at 50P.

[MrPixels]

Good work on Barco's behalf. You are an asset to them reporting the bugs so they know first what needs to be addressed.  It is expected some things will take a little longer but Barco knowing how important 3D is to you it is nice they were able to tackle this in a timely manor. I am sure that put a smile on your face

[w.mayer]

Here are a good news from the new Alchemy.

At post number 21 you can see the pictures I have post about the banding the Barco show with Arrival UHD with “this specially way to feed at this time
UHD HDR Material” with the Lumagen and the Striper to the Barco Laser Projector.

Also the 77” 1016 OLED show this banding!

Now with the new Alchemy it is the first time where I see that this banding are 99% gone.
I think it’s very near to invisible and may you can see in the picture still a bit but this comes from the picture making as this pictures is the bottle neck.

Compare this "close up" picture to the one in Post number 21 and you will see the difference!
Please also note that Barco not do this with any filtering normally LCOS Pr. have inside to make this bandings less visible.
This filtering cost details and just to have some few min. with difficult sequence’s banding less visible the disadvantage is that 
99.9% of the movie time you have less details visible.

[w.mayer]

Some Updates.

I found some bugs with the new Alchemy Input but Barco is already working on it.
Some of them are already solved and I think it will not take much time that  Barco fix the rest as well.

I found yesterday night a nice surprise.
As you may know the Barco Thor lose more light during the contrast upgrade from 3000:1 to over 6000:1 than original was calculated (33%).
But the real lost was 46% and that was not a problem for 2D as there I never go over 70% of the laser power but for 3D in scope I have only about 18 FTL coming to my eye.
You will now say wow this is bright but I was use to a bright 3D Image since long time and I always wish to show 3D not below 20 FTL.
One option to increase the brightness was for scope 3D movies ( for flat 3D movies I have enough light) to use the ISCO Anamorphic 1.25 Lens the “by far best Anamorphic Lens in the world”.

The problem was that I hear from Barco that it will be not possible to stretch in the Barco Projector the Scope Format in picture high so much that I can use this Lens.
Yesterday I found a settings that works with it and a first short test show a perfect 3D BD Picture with about 23% increase of Brightness!

The Picture show beside a little distortion that is almost invisible in a running movie not any negative aspect but the increase in lumen from around 18 FTL to over 22 FTL is a big advantage for me!

This is a very nice step up in 3D Brightness that I will use from now on for all Scope 3D BDs.

[w.mayer]

I install today a new 65” OLED that I use as a Reference Monitor in my home cinema.

This replace the 4K LG OLED 2015 Model with the 2016 Model.

The new one have more brightness and can display almost 100 % DCI Color compare to the old one.
In Red you can see that easy.
The last and best ever build 3D model and the only that can do also Dolby Vison.

Very sad that LG stops all OLED that can do 3D as they are by far the best 3D Displays ever made.
What a shame!!!

Likely tomorrow I will get a new Software for my Barco Projector and an update for the new Alchemy as well.

[w.mayer]

I got today new Alchemy Software that solve some bugs I had found.

Now it is possible to scale  a UHD HDR Rec 2020 Signal at Scope 3840x1640 to the full panel without any bugs.
In theory it should be possible to now scale it even vertically so big that you can use the Isco 1.25 Anamorphic lens but with the lumen the Barco Thor have for 2D there is really no need to do it !

But this high brightness offers you a luxury way to project HDR.
My older Projector had only with a Isco 1.25 Anamorphic lens (see picture in the second last post) at full light out in 2D 20 FTL on the screen.
Now with the Barco Thor I can go up to over 40 FTL at the full 7 meter in scope (without the Anamorphic Lens) and
with this lumen you can use much higher NIT Adjustment in other words you can see “MORE HDR”!
For sample in the past I often use 300 nit clipping as this is the only way that the Picture was bright enough.
Now I can use 500 nit clipping and even more like 600 and 700 nit and I still can see a brighter image compare to before with a lot more HDR Effect visible in the picture.
Even at 1000 nit it is possible to watch what a nice HDR Picture!
The world record near 1000:1 Ansi Cr. further enhance this!

Barco told me that they will have soon a function that automatic adjust the Nit depends on screen size and the individual UHD Disc how it was mastered.
Most UHD Disc was mastered for 1000 nits some for 2000 nit and most Sony UHD Disc are use 4000 nits.
So this new function will be adjust to the individual Disc and how they was mastered and how big the screen was.
On top of this you can manually adjust it if you like it brighter or more HDR visible just about how you like it most.

So this is for ALL the perfect solution as this allows the people that are not so technical to drive it in Auto HDR Mode that will show all the time a good HDR picture and for those that like to adjust it manually this is also possible.
So for both sides the best from the best VERY NICE !

There are some more minor issues that Barco is working on but I was very sure that most will be solve till Barco will ship the first new Alchemy’s to the first customers in the coming weeks.

The way I playback in the past 4K UHD Disc with the Lumagen was a very good temporary solution and I have enjoyed this for over a half year.
I saw a lot of good movies in a very good picture quality.

But now I can say that UHD HDR Rec.2020 4K Disc feed from my Oppo BD Player feed direct via HDMI cable to the new Alchemy HDMI 2.0 Input looks perfect.

[w.mayer]

One of the issues with the new Alchemy Input was that I cannot playback Video Content that my Sony AX1 Cam record in 4K.

Since over 3 years I have this camera I not have seen the content I record (private home movies from family) as I like to watch it when I have the right Projector for.
I select 3840x2160 at 60p and the Cam record in 8bit and 4:2:0.

Now I was very excited as I know with the new Alchemy it should be possible.

But then the big disappointment.
The Barco so far cannot display 4K 60p content with 8 bit 4:2:0 it must be 4:2:2!
Barco will add 4:2:0 support later but today it not works.
All other 4K Consumer Projectors have 4:2:0 support so Barco need it as well as there are beside many other 4K Video Cams more sources with this format like 4K STB.
But then a nice surprise.
I try one MP4 file the Sony Cam record copy it to a USB Stick and the new Oppo UHD Player plays it perfect !
The Panasonic UHD Player cannot playback it as there is even with the latest Software always a stutter visible.
Not so with the Oppo UHD Player it plays this content fine.

Picture looks outstanding good and even if it was only 8bit and no HDR it was almost better than anything else I have seen on UHD!
Only few UHD Disc like “Lucy” or the first 4K 60p Movie Billy Lynns “Long Haftime Walk” are coming close to the material the Sony AX1 can show at least when the content was record under good light condition.
It was a huge surprise how good this material was displayed and a nice temporary solution to playback 4K 60P 8bit 4:2:0 content till Barco Thor will have 4:2:0 support.

Looks like the source quality are the Bottle neck if you have the Barco Thor!

[donaldk]

Indeed Wolfgang Broadcast (including Satellite, Cable) will be 4:2:0 even when 10 bit for HDR. The first chip generation from ViXS did support 4:2:2, I was told, but that meant it could provide 4:2:2 output, upsampled from 4:2:0. Even from contribution/primary distribution clients the representative did not see demand for HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2. So even in the primary market of cinema's 4:2:0 support would be essential for 'Alternative Content'.

[dirk goetze]

Hello Wolfgang,

very good news at all!

Maybe the hd fury linker can be solve the problem with the camera and convert the signal.
I'm not shure, but you should give it try. Just an idea

best dirk

[donaldk]

Great suggestion, according to hdfury this has been tested and should work: Input: 4K50/60 YCC 4:2:0 8b 300MHz Output: 4K50/60 RGB/YCC 4:4:4/YCC 4:2:2 8b 600MHz.

[w.mayer]

Yes Donald Barco should add this as soon as possible.

Dirk
Thanks for the good Info.
I have one so I can test it if it’s working.
But almost nicer was to playback the files from the Oppo UHD Player as there you can easy select a file and have full control over playback with all functions from the Oppo UHD Player.
This makes it even more nice and easy to playback the content as compare direct from the Sony 4K Cam HDMI out.

But a Projector in this price range should playback 4:2:0 Signals as ever other sub 2000 Euro Projector can do it no question.

Last weekend my Crestron System was build up to drive the whole Cinema include the
Barco Thor Projector and the nice thing was all runs well not any problem at all.

So from now on my family can even if I was not at home or not like to watch a movie enjoy this top home cinema as beside me in the past no one knows how to operate this complex system.
Now hit 3 bottoms and put a disc into the Oppo UHD Player they can watch a movie and with press 2 bottoms the can drive all down.
But not only my family like it .... I like it as well  !

It was so very sad that I cannot use the Kaleidescape Player System
as we watch a lot of 3D BDs and this System cannot handle 3D BDs at all.
Very very sad as this playback solution will be nice to have.

Just comes up from the Cinema and test further updates from the new Alchemy.
Good progress but it gets too late I need a bed so I will report about the stage in the next post.

[w.mayer]

So this is the Status of the Barco Thor Projector with the new Alchemy Input board on 5th  May 2017.

-2D BDs : no problem at all
-3D BDs : no problem at all
-Full HD STB : no problem at all
-4K STB : likely no problem but I have to check when I get the STB back.
-DCI Content 2K 4K 2D and 2K 3D and 2K 3D HFR: no problem at all (but I have test it just briefly)

-UHD Disc 4K HDR Rec 2020 24P and 60P:
In general no problem picture looks very good.
Some issues are there:
-So far there was the Nit setting that I have always to set new to about 500 nits as Projector so far cannot safe this setting. Barco told me this will be solve next week.
-Gamma was at this time not adjustable.
It looks a bit too dark compare to my new 4K LG OLED Reference Monitor but I have so far not any possibility to change this as the Post Software that was "very nice to use" so far not working with the UHD Format and the new Alchemy together.
Most Picture Parameters I can adjust in the Oppo UHD Player but not Gamma!
So most important for me was to adjust this Gamma to the right level as near black parts tend to clip in the 1-5% IRE range.
I hope Barco will offer at least Gamma adjustment soon and the rest from Post Software not so much later.
Having this Post Software ready for the Barco Thor and all formats is a big sales point as no other competitor have such a system!

-3D 4K my own private pictures:
Barco create a Software that should playback with a special computer this pictures.
Believe it or not I have till today not test this so I cannot tell finally if it works!
I know this sounds a bit strange but first I like to have everything else are working perfect before I will test this “cream cover”!
I got some weeks ago a DCI File in 4K 3D and it contains some of my best 4K 3D Pictures I did in the last years see also Post number 19.
So I know already how this 4K 3D Pictures looks and they looks unbelievable better than anything else I have seen so far in my live.
Way better than the best UHD Disc and better than any 4K DCI Movie I have seen so far.

There was a general Problem to feed UHD 4K 24P and 60P content via an 18 Meter long Optical HDMI Cable.
Looks like there is not any fast way that this cable are working with the new Alchemy HDMI 2.0 Input.
Barco told me that the cable works not 100% right to the specification but looks like only the Barco HDMI 2.0 Inputs have a problem with it as many other Projectors and other Displays have not any problem with it.
So if you need a longer than 8 Meter cable from source to the Projector that can do the full 18 GB for the only so far available UHD Disc from Billy Linns Haftime walk and other upcoming titles
you need a very good coper cable with repeaters.

So all in all the Barco Thor with the new Alchemy is almost ready for prime time.
A normally user will not have any problems to playback all the content from different sources that we have today.
When you order now this Projector and count the delivery time Barco should have by then solved all this issues.

My headline ask if the Barco Thor is the best Projector in the world?
The answer is a clear yes.
The Barco Thor is very expensive but for those that can afford it they should know that they get the best Projector money can buy today.