Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?

[w.mayer]

Yesterday I had time to looking into the new software version of the MadVR Envi.

We watch again 1917 to see if the bugs I have seen there really disappear.
The movie 1917 had no cut in 2 hours!
This made this movie very special as function’s to sync audio and video that is need had not any good point to made it without any visible bug.
Now with the new software the MadVR Envi played the whole 2 hours without any visible bug!
WOW this is very nice and without going into more details it is helpful for normally movies as well.
So no micro jerky motions are visible at all for any disc format.

Second was 3D that was with this new software now first time possible.
And to made it short it works also perfect without any problem at all.
We watch a documentation from the Vatican museum in 3D about 1 hour long no any bug at all.
Then I watch about 40 min. from Titanic also with no bug at all.
So looks like 3D works without any problems.
This is very nice as now it allows that you not need to change cables as the Envi cannot do 3D and therefore you not need always to disconnect HDMI cables and back again when a 3D movie was finish.

Very sad but this is not a Envi bug was the super good scaling the Envi did for 1920x1080 2D Blue Rays to 3840x2160 are not possible in 3D.
Reason is that the Blue Ray 3D is not a 4K signal where this extreme good scaling can work.
It is feed to the Thor still in 1920x1080 and therefore you not benefit from Envis scaling as the Barco do the scaling internally from 1920x1080 to 3840x2160.
Please found the picture I mad with hand phone from a test picture yesterday that all Sony Bds had hidden inside.
As you can see the worst is the Oppo scaling.
A little bit better is the Barco Thor scaling.
But by far the Envi show the best scaling.
It show almost not any ringing and a lot less stair steps.
This world best 1920x1080 to 3840x2160 scaling is the result of  an “unique AI” scaling method to get this super good result!
This needs a lot of processing power to do that most units not have.

I hope that someday there will be a possibility to do it but as a 3840x2160 3D 24P signal is not a standard in Home Cinema it can be a big challenge to made it working if it can be done at all.
May when MadVR have their Envi ready for sale shortly they will have more time to see if this can be possible but for this time they are working to finish the unit that they can release the Envi to the market as many people waiting for it.

[Cinetom]

The Envy shows much better scaling. The difference is very noticeable. I would have expected the Barco to perform better but doing a side by side like you have done really shows the winner.

[w.mayer]

Yes this was also for me a surprise.

I hear Barco improve scaling with new software (my picture based on the older softwar version) but as I had older software inside that not support this new version I need to change this first to let this new version running.
I don't know if it made sense to change a running system as I expect may some smaller improvement but I am relative sure that it will be not as good as the Eniv.
No projector in the world have such big processing power the Envi have and this is need to do AI scaling.
Also interesting will be how the Lumagen scaler will perform.
I have one but limit time to do this test but let's see as I really like to compare it.....
May I will cancel one appointment today and set the Lumagen up for a test.....

[w.mayer]

Here are the pictures from Envi VS Lumagen.

Oppo was set to “source direct” BD was a Sony Disc with hidden Testpatterns in Full HD.
Test was to see difference between how the Lumagen handle HD to 4K scaling
compare to MadVR Envi HD to 4K scaling.

Much sharper much less stair steps much less ringing.
If someone not see this huge difference he should be stop his homecinema hobby and looking for something else……

[donaldk]

The stone in pond ring pattern in anything but the Envi are part of the orignal testpattern file, or not?

[Art Sonneborn]

Very interesting  ! Thanks Wolfgang for the comparisons. Perhaps an Envy thread would be in order.


Art

[w.mayer]

Got some information’s about scaling that I like to share.

Barco as all other left Cinema Projector Manufacturer are not have the possibility to modify the signal with sharpness ore other filters or scaling.
DCI requirement not allow it.
This rules are very strict.
Only 2K DCI Content playback with a 4K Pr. will do a 2x scaling.

So therefore Barco cannot do what they technically can do about all this.

It looks like because of the upcoming LED Walls that this can change in the near future as there is right now a lot of talk about it.
I think it will take some years that the DCI rules allows scaling and the use of filters inside a DCI Projector.
The result will be better control better tone mapping and many other things that will be possible.
Don’t forget about LST Barco works for some years but unclear was how long it will takes to bring it finally to the market.

But so far if you like to have this control now the use of the MadVR ENVI is the best you can do today and it not only increase the picture quality in my Barco Thor Pr.
It will increase the picture in many ways see my last posts about it as well for many other high end projectors like the top Sony and JVC Projectors and of course all the top Professional Projectors.
The often discussed use of a Home Cinema PC that use the MadVR Envi technology is for the most people to complex and not a good solution.
For some very knowledge computer experts that have not any problem to spend a lot of time it can be an option.
But they have to live with micro motion judder bugs and other disadvantages.
Complex handling as you need to rip first the content alone this is something most people not like to do.
And think about all the other sources material like all TV STB and Streaming and more.

[dirk goetze]

Hallo Wolfgang,


I hope you ok, last posting 12 Weeks ago.
What means you still enjoy your set up.


I have the new Lumagen pro Beta running, with sharpness algo and a updated scaling. 
Can please explain , there I found this test pattern


Thank you
Here are the pictures from Envi VS Lumagen.Oppo was set to “source direct” BD was a Sony Disc with hidden Testpatterns in Full HD.Test was to see difference between how the Lumagen handle HD to 4K scaling

[w.mayer]

Hi Dirk

yes your guess is right I am doing well and as there is not any big news so I spend my time with other things.

I still enjoy a lot the Barco Thor setup with the ENVI Scaler together that I believe it is still over all the best money can buy till today and may even a bit longer.

I read some time here and there all the posts about the other Projectors that are coming but looks like they are delayed and delayed an opposite to some posts from some people they are still not buyable in 2020.
Who knows if the comes to the market and how the will perform in long term.
It is a huge difference to made a good demo at Manufacturer Location and when the Projector is at your home when you do not have a service technician living in your house.
But I hope for the best as I am interested also in this new Projector.
But I will be here opposite to many other Projectors in the past not the early adaptor!
I hope that early adaptor’s next year will be truly post not only about advantages and cut out possible disadvantages like convergence and other things that are maybe an issue from there reports.
When I read from time to time in forums I got feeling that many people did it this way and this is not good.
If there is a problem you need to bring it to the table like I did with this Barco Thor Thread.
There a few issues with this projector and I always report about it and not do cherry picking.
Hide this things is a bad way and made a forum read senseless.

Sorry but I cannot help with Lumagen.
I give up on it when I got the Envi as it perform much better.
Also I have hear from people that I know are have a big knowledge that new Lumagen Software is in some way an improvement in other not so I do not like to waste my time to find out if this is true or not as I have report very happy with my picture.