Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?

[w.mayer]

Good news!

I work few hours on the screen today tighten it up on top left and right and cut the V6 material that I not use out on the sides.

Was again a hard work.
Luckily the one big visible bug at right is out of the screen area.
One smaller on at left is inside but he is so small that even von 3 meters distance you and not see it even if you look for it.
My normally screen distance is 6.5 meters so no issue at all.
The active screen size is now 7,3 meter wide and 2,95 meter high.
So my new screen is about 35cm bigger horizontal and about 15 cm bigger in height compare to the old one.

I have not tighten up the down part but try some UHD 4K HDR Disc and some 3D BDs as I can’t wait!

Just to remember the Barco Thor is the best direct Laser Pr. about speckle.
It show almost not any visible speckle in all 2D material as there normally all 6 laser are working.
I use in the past the Harkness Matt Preview the best 1.0 gain screen that monye can buy and it show the smallest amount of speckle from all conventional
screen materials I have test and I test almost everything.
So I was pleased with the Harkness Matt Preview a lot when 2D is projected with the Barco Thor.
Now the V6 screen show not any visible speckle in 2D Materials anymore.
The very very little speckle in 2D that the Barco had was gone by 100% .
No speckle anymore very nice.

In 3D the Barco Thor display left eye with only 3 laser and right eye with the other 3 laser.
The result is that you can see in all 3D material more speckle compare to 2D.
It was ok for me as I got used to it but I never like it.
Now this speckle in 3D is also almost complete gone and I bet beside me no one else will see speckle in 3D anymore and this is for me a huge advantage
that the V6 material have compare to all other conventional screens I know.
Very very nice!

Sound was also improved a lot even I have not run the sound calibration it sounds much better than before!
I have only one ear as I lost one in an inner ear stroke 10 years ago so i can not detect anymore from where the sound comes but the rest form the family or friends  will benefit from the speakers behind the screen where normally they should be.

Contrast looks also improved but I have to check more on this as I need first a perfect masking system as now the boarders are open and not covert.
I have all the parts here with me and the system was also clear.
I just need some time to do it.
Also the sound absorber that are beside the sound also working as a optically iris will have some effect on the visible cr. so I need some more time to play with it.
But I can say today that I will have a better visible cr. for sure.

All this are good news and I am glad that all works so far.

Now my cinema will be after 3 months of shut down even better with:
-no speckle anymore in 2D and 3D
-higher visible cr.
-better sound
-bigger screen

I can also not see any kind of softer image that some people claims when a fabric screen was used.

It was a hard work and it will be some work to finish it but today I can say all the work and the problems was worse it as the picture is improved for sure.

[donaldk]

Good news Wolfgang. Congratulations to you and Jon, the manufacturer of the V6 screen material.

[MrPixels]

the Barco Thor is the best direct Laser Pr. about speckle.

Is that fact or are you specklating 

[w.mayer]

Fake news

Seriously I am happy with the result as this was a step up in video and audio performance.

I doubt that I ever can go back to a normal screen when I got use to the V6 material.

[w.mayer]

Thank you Alan for your tip about this screen.

Without it I doubt that I have this screen today.

You was the first that bring this up to me and after a lot of work and a lot of time I invest in it now the outcome is very nice.

[lygren]

Glad to hear the V6 install is finally live Wolfgang! For our most recent ‘textileshield’ production run we have placed even more rigid quality requirements during inspection, but I am glad to hear it most probably would be OK for you working around the small issues you have found.

I would also say it is an honour that someone of your calibre and understanding of image tech enjoys the results of all our hard dev and production efforts - and in such an XXL size it’s finally being fully exploited!

We’ll be doing another UltraWeave showcase at this years CEDIA by the way, once again being tagged along by our great Dutch friends at Alcons Audio (Austrian Walter Fortmuller is doing the system design once again), but we had to settle for a smaller room this time in order to get down to the showroom floor, so merely a 158» 16:9 native MotoMask PRO this time (220» last year... ). Not sure about projector though, but I believe Alcons / Walter had been quite happy with the Sony vw5000 at ISE in February so they might do a rerun to play it safe...

And thanks a lot to Alan for suggesting that Wolfgang have a look at this screen!

Donald; thanks for the greet, perhaps you’ll swing by the Alcons booth at CEDIA if you get tired of all those fancy microLED walls??

[w.mayer]

It is not just "ok" it is much better than the best screen material I used since years  !

Do you see any reason to tighten it up on the floor down or can I do this later in few weeks.
Need to know today.

I am not sure if I need at all to put it inside in the grip you send me!
May on the floor a heavy iron 4x4cm cover with a black is the better solution.
This is possible enough to make the screen perfect flat (it is now perfect flat without tighten it up on the floor!) and it will be much more easy to going if something happen with the speakers behind the screen as I just need to pull out something from left or right from bottom to 1 meter high as this will allows me to going behind the screen.
This will be much more easy to do compare to open it from the grip a big part.

This is how it looks now with some area that need some further work but this is 5 min. not more.

[w.mayer]

As the screen is now about 35cm more close to the projector and the screen size is increase about 30cm the  optic inside the pr. can not support the full screen anymore.

When I was watching 3D BDs I use in scope the 1.25 Anamorphic Isco Lens to gain light about 25%.
With this lens I can go bigger so 3D BDs I can see at full 7.3 meter wide.

I have to looking inside the Barco Thor if this kind of scaling (for the Isco 1.25 ) is possible for 4K UHD HDR content as well.
If so I will see if this is a option as well to fill the full screen even with 2D material.

In the past I was watching scope movies at 1.0 times the screen wide in distance now as screen gets a little bit bigger and distance shrinks I sit only 0,9 times the screen wide away when I use full 7.3 meter.

I think this 0,9 times the screen wide in distance is the maximum.
If picture gets any bigger than this it will be not anymore nice to watch.

[lygren]

It is not just "ok" it is much better than the best screen material I used since years  !
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Thanks a lot Wolfgang!


Do you see any reason to tighten it up on the floor down or can I do this later in few weeks.
Need to know today.

I am not sure if I need at all to put it inside in the grip you send me!
May on the floor a heavy iron 4x4cm cover with a black is the better solution.
This is possible enough to make the screen perfect flat (it is now perfect flat without tighten it up on the floor!) and it will be much more easy to going if something happen with the speakers behind the screen as I just need to pull out something from left or right from bottom to 1 meter high as this will allows me to going behind the screen.
This will be much more easy to do compare to open it from the grip a big part.
<\q>

The fabric is really not that crazy sensitive to tensioning as long as you make sure the overall screen is tensioned so that no major sagging occurs. Still, I would personally always prefer to tension up the fabric "drum-skin-tight", it allows you to work out the entire surface perfectly and you would not have to re-tension all the time. 


This is how it looks now with some area that need some further work but this is 5 min. not more.
<\q>

Sure, it does look quite good already. If you can work out those final sections and you see they are not returning I guess it might be sufficient as is. One alternative is that you tension it up in the rails on the top and the sides, and rather tension it like you´re doing now at the bottom to be able to more easily access the stuff behind the screen. However, there is no problem detaching and attaching the screen in the grip rails if needed be.

[Art Sonneborn]

Very cool Wolfgang...I always gasp a bit at that screen size.  And now even larger !

[w.mayer]

Art as I say the screen is only a little bit bigger but thanks to the also shrink viewing distance the picture looks a lot bigger.
No problem with good 2D and 3D BDs and perfekt with true 4K UHD Disc but I not like to go any bigger than 0,9 times the screen wide in distance.

[Art Sonneborn]

Wolfgang,
I've broken every rule with seating distance that has ever been put forth. I'm not proud of it but it brings me enjoyment ,so hey, it's my theater. I do understand though ,  there are things about close seating that are a different experience a lot has to do with the particular film. My middle row is about that distance.

Art

[w.mayer]

Back from a long holiday…..

I like to report some of the latest developments.

I watch at my holiday location a lot of movies with the Sony VW760 (885 US) and picture was very good.
As there the screen was only 3.6 meter and I use the best 1.25 anamorphic lens in the market  the Isco 1.25 the picture was almost 29 FTL bright.
As on off cr. from the VW760 was native in the 15.000:1 plus on top the laser dimming it show a nice HDR picture.
First 10 days I think how good black was but after some time I adopt to the good black level.

Week part from the Sony VW760 was visible color banding and sometime some pinky colors in some areas that should be not there.
This all the Barco do not have at all and JVC 4K Pr. so far I know will have this not as well.

I saw that Sony as well JVC show each 3 new 4K pr.at the IFA Show in Berlin.
Highlight was the new big Sony the VW870 that is based on the VW760 with new laser diodes and a high end optic that was the same that was used in the VW5000.
Also some highlight was that for the first time Sony offers a special feature that I propose to Sony development some almost 3 years ago when I first saw an early prototype of the VW5000 in November 2015.
I mean the function that the laser dimming in combination with the dynamic iris function.
I am a little bit proud that I may push Sony a bit in this direction and now finally they coming with this feature.
All what I hear from the show from people that saw this function working sounds very promising as it looks it improve a lot the black level without having big side effects visible.
For those that like to see this function in the VW 5000 I can tell this will be not coming as it is impossible as the heat is too much that a iris can work with the big lumen output from the VW5000.

Also a highlight will be the new JVC 4K Pr.
The top one the NX9B had on paper the same lumen (2200) as the Sony VW 870 but the JVC is a UHP lamp projector the Sony a Laser.
Highlights are as a top optic (the same as in the Z1) and that this pr. have native at least double the cr. the Sony offers.
I think the NX9B  will have with full light output max. zoom on off cr. in the good 30.000:1 possible 35.000:1 range so at least double compare to the Sony.
Interesting will be how the picture on the screen will compare to the Sony?
The Sony may will have more Ansi Cr. as the JVC use a 8K wobble  that no one needs as 4K pixels are invisible already so this 8K wobble is a marketing tool that
may only drop the native ansi cr. and so decrease only the performance in worst case.
In best case it only costs some money and not decrease the ansi cr. performance.
But anyway no one need this.
I not understand why JVC is doing this!

Interesting will be how the Sony VW 870 compare on the screen beside all the numbers to the JVC NX9B and if the JVC offers a 1.25 anamorphic function like the Sony VW 870 have.
If the JVC will not have this function I will be not consider to buy it as I need this function and to run only for this a Radiance is to complicate for me.

Anyway both new high end pr. from Sony and JVC will set a new reference for cr. and black in few weeks from now when they comes to the market.
I am thinking to buy of this one to replace my VW760.

Back to the movies.
We saw about 30 movies most in UHD but some  BDs as well.
The biggest joke was the picture quality from "Die Hard1" UHD.

The worst picture quality I saw since UHD Disc are out.
Even less good than the worse UHD version from Oblivion where the BD show more details than the UHD Version (see one of my older posting and pictures here in this tread).
But in average the BDs and UHD most look quite good and it was nice to see this movies in such a good picture quality.

I hope that Barco will have better sooner than later also a way of improving the black of their Projectors as home cinema pr. are hitting very high cr. numbers now.


The next days I will be finish my new screen and fire up my Barco again after long time.

[donaldk]

It has been doing this for at least thirteen years, since before the NHK-led UHDTV/Super Hi-Vision US/EU demo's of 2006. According to vendor claims the 4K+e-shift projectors JVC has been selling for half a decade do offer more than 4K resolution, but those are used with rendering engines not disc based video material.

Of course this is the culmination of the UHDTV development programme, and with the 8K channel launching in Japan at the end of the year. DPI/Delta has an DLP alternative.

According to the JVC representative I spoke to at ISE 2017, the native 8K imagers are so large that it is impossible to offer a fully flat surface, so causing some (refractive) issues there.

[dirk goetze]

Hello Wofgang,

here is an Interview with Panamorph at Cedia, Shawn Kelly mentioned that the new Sony AND JVC 4k will work out the full 4096 Resolution Lenses.
https://www.avsforum.com/interview-panamorphs-shawn-kelly-cedia-2018/
I saw both at the IFA and I was very impressed by both (870 and JVC 9) performanceses.
The question is how much light will JVCs UHP lamp loss over the time?

The Sony can change the lens zu Short Throw 0,81, but you can't use the adaptive Optic in that case and it cost you 8000€ on top.

Best Regards dirk