Barco Thor 4K 6P Residential Laser Projector the best in the World?

[w.mayer]

I had post this in the other thread but as this is something about the Barco Thor I decide to post the
BT 2020 color triangle here as well.
Barco Thor hit bigger than BT 2020!
See more in the other thread.
http://dci-forum.com/d-cinema-hi-end-cinema-home/11/why-only-true-rgb-laser-projector-best/3229/13
Post 14.

[w.mayer]

I have found out that I can possible increase the visible black performance from my Barco Thor a little bit by adjusting the gamma brightness and contrast.
This was “beside gamma” possible with my the Oppo UHD player.

Gamma the Oppo cannot adjust and it was sad that the Post Production Software Barco have not support 4K HDR UHD source material where you can adjust gamma normally.

So what I do today was to install between the Oppo UHD player and the Barco Thor projector my Lumagen scaler.
I use them in the past at a time when the Barco Thor do not have the new Alchemy Plus input module to show with existing HDMI 1.4 input HDR Material.

So today I finally try it as Barco told me there was not any option that adjust gamma for 4K HDR content in the way I like to do it.

Setup is working and I will pay with the settings to see if there is really a visible improvement in black  visible without destroy to much the near black performance.

Some good UHD Disc may do not need such adjustment but some not looks so good near black and some gamma and other adjustments may will help I will see and report when I have
more experience with it.
Also as Lumagen will be add this month a new function the “tone mapping for HDR Material” I like to try this as well.
I have a new Panasonic UHD Player that offers this as well but some few very knowledge people told me to not try it as it do not looks good.
So I hope Lumagen will do it better.

Funny I hear from several normally good informed people that Studios in Hollywood master UHD and BD Disc near black in a way that often black is not 100% black anymore!
Reason is they do not like the function that some projectors offer to switch the laser full off when a 100% dark image is displayed.
By add 0,01% brightness to a 100% black picture the pr. will detect it and be never shut the laser 100% of and this what the like!
If true this is a nightmare for all those that had a OLED Display with infinity cr. and or upcoming Pr. or LED Walls that can do this infinity black.
I hope this rumor is not true.

[MrPixels]

While I prefer a clean signal path without the use of additional boxes I am using a Lumagen video processor. It does a nice job allowing you to create a custom gamma curve without artifacts as long as you keep the gradients between IREs not to steep. You will easily be able to increase detail in the lower IRE.

[donaldk]

If this is true, Wolfgang then any serious display should account for this and go for (optional) setting to go to black, below  0,0x% brightness. Traditionally lasers only shut-off when the images was 100% black. When the display can do this on an area by area or even pixel by pixel basis it no longer is for just full black frames, but also partial black frames, and there finally will be content with real usable black. So content producers going to mess this up? Then below  0,0x% brightness it should just read black.

[w.mayer]

As I post I hope this rumor is not true.

But if you like check all the new Star Wars Disc from Disney and you will see that black is there not anymore 100% black.
As Disney is a big studio that should know what they do and it is not "only one disc" I do not think they made it by mistake!

[Art Sonneborn]

I had heard that Lumagen was coming with dynamic meta data processing soon with the ability to input the projector on screen nits combined with the dynamic data to give optimum projector HDR performance is this what you are talki9ng about Wolfgang ?

Art

[w.mayer]

I had heard that Lumagen was coming with dynamic meta data processing soon with the ability to input the projector on screen nits combined with the dynamic data to give optimum projector HDR performance is this what you are talki9ng about Wolfgang ?
Art
<\q>

Art 2 separate things.

One is the wrong black that Studios like Disney did with Star Wars.
This was very bad and should not happen at all.

The other thing was that I play with the Lumagen to increase the visible black from every UHD Disc and even at BD source material and TV material.
It is too early to say here anything as I need much more time but the next weeks I will have almost not any time to check it.

Yes Lumagen works on this adaptive tone mapping function and this is very good news for me with the Barco Thor!
I talk today with Jim the Lumagen Boss and he told me that this new Software for the adaptive tone mapping will be hopefully ready in 3-4 weeks if not a bug is discovers last minute.
On top of this he told me that Lumagen is working on HDR10+ as well!!!
But this will take longer.

Hope Lumagen will have a good adaptive tome mapping soon as this
will be for sure a good visible improvement with my Barco Thor.

I will be reporting here how it will looks.

[Art Sonneborn]

Thanks , I will be waiting eagerly for your report.

[dirk goetze]

Thank you for the good news from inside Lumagen.
Last year the answer to HDR10+ was no, so these are very good news for this units in long terms.

I'm not sure, if consumer Projectors can handle Hdr10+ in the future.
So far I can wait to see the Lumagen dynamic HDR asap at first.

In addition at your 2001 review I found this, didn't read it completely , but I think you will like it also
https://eatdrinkfilms.com/2018/12/23/2001-a-projection-odyssey-big-screen-small-screen-70mm-digital/?ct=t(in70mm_October_2018_COPY_01)#more-22461

[w.mayer]

Good link nice to read.

The problem I have is that the new 4K UHD  Version is resolution wise is not any better than the new BD version.
At some sequences you only can see very minor improvements almost invisible see my screenshots earlier.

So this UHD Disc is beside the HDR and the better color almost not better than a reference 2K BD.
I will say that some new reference BD in 2 K show a better picture (resolution wise ) than this UHD Disc.

But when you watch the UHD Disc 2001 it was by far the very best how you can see this movie
but this UHD Disc is “NOT” a reference UHD Disc as some say!

Same people rate often “The Martian”  UHD Disc as a reference UHD Disc but comparing the BD to the UHD you found beside the better color and the
HDR effect the UHD Version offers not much difference in resolution as the Master for the UHD Disc was a 2K master.

What was nice with this 2001 UHD Disc was the HDR that looks very good as the Barco Thor have near 1000:1 ansi cr. and some sequences benefit a lot from it like the one when HAL was switch off.

[Kaaga]

I
Also as Lumagen will be add this month a new function the “tone mapping for HDR Material” I like to try this as well.
I have a new Panasonic UHD Player that offers this as well but some few very knowledge people told me to not try it as it do not looks good.
So I hope Lumagen will do it better.

<\q>

Can you clarify why the Panasonic tone mapping is not good, what are the “bad” side effects....
Do you see better chroma up-sampling with Panasonic compared to Oppo, or you are using Oppo source direct feature?

[w.mayer]

I had post this about tone mapping in the Panasonic:

"I have a new Panasonic UHD Player that offers this as well but some few very knowledge people told me to not try it as it do not looks good."

As I post I have not try it so I cant tell you the answer.
But this info comes from 3 very knowledge people and I trust them when all say the same so i better safe my time there.

But I try the Panasonic UHD Player and compare it to the Oppo and as I can not see any big advantages with the Panasonic I still use the Oppo as it is in the Crestron System inside already.

[Art Sonneborn]

Wolfgang,
Is this the 820/9000 Panasonic you are referring to ?


Art

[dirk goetze]

Hello Wolfgang,


Lumagen just release the firmware update with the dynamic tone mapping you mentioned above.
I look forward to see your impressions.


Best Regards dirk

[w.mayer]

This is good news Dirk!

I just return back to Germany yesterday and I am very busy the next days and weeks but I will contact Oliver about it and see when I have time to test it with my Barco Thor.

I hope it allows me to dim the Laser further down to get a better black level without that the picture will looks dim.